"My mother was born in Finland - it makes me to an imigrant in the statistics.
Would I, who was born in Sweden be expelled if I were living in Sweden and Iwas caught running a red light? "
No. Hans. To statistically count as an immigrant, both your parents must be born abroad. It makes you a Svenne and me in to a damn immigrant so pull off the victim cardigan emediatly! Pffft! And no again Hans, not even I who are counted as an imigrant would be deported for running a red light! Hardly anyone does get deported. You have to be a serious criminal without PUT or citizenship to risk being deported and as there are far to many PUT:s and citizenships being handed out, you have to be seriously desperate or deranged to be tossed out of the country. Not that it helps though. With fake papers or no papers at all you can be back in Sweden within 24 hours. It's actually harder for me as a Swedish citizen, born and raised here, to get in to the country again if I lost my passport on an out of Europe journey because I don't look foreign and I cant speak the "right" languages (arabic, somali, pashtuun and whatever languages they speak in the countries we import "rocket scientists" from).
"What do you mean? First ask you if I think Sweden has unlimited resources - then you write that Sweden has unlimited resources."
Sarcasm, like the use of capital letters at the beginning of a sentence does not seem to be your greatest strength, huh?
" Does not immigrants pay taxes?"
In many-far too many cases-No, they don't pay taxes at all. If they 're not on wellfare or being given unemployment compensation or other social security compensation, the immigrants in the overwhelmingly majority tends to work in the public sector. Hence no net tax income for the state at all . In addition, a recently received immigrant has not paid a dime in Swedish taxes on the day he set foot on Swedish soil, but is eligible for our entire social security system. Google on ÄFS. A small hint only.
"Have you considered just how- the deminishing population - without immigration - could provide for the growing retiering population?"
Well, how does it work in countries that have little or negligible immigration? A mystery-mark, my word. It's not a pyramid scam- game, we're talking about here!
"How much more often, are immigrants committing crimes than Swedes?
And who is Swedish? Are you Swedish or an immigrant if you were born in Sweden but has a foreign born mother?
facts should not be brushed aside - but it should be examined. Do it. "
Approximately 2.5 times more often than indogen Swedes. If we only count migrants from MENA countries and also address only to serious crime; Well, who knows? Such information are considered state secrets as here in Sweden. But I'm willing to bet big money on that the over representation is, in any event not lesser. About facts. You don't seem to have a clue, do you? Don't make up facts- they are to easy to refute.
Who is Swedish? Those who consider themselves Swedish! Again, if you consider yourself to be Swedish (and holds citizenship, not PUT) - then you are Swedish. For the last time: You are not statistically speaking an immigrant- stop whining about that. So if you still are the holder of Swedish nationality, and more importantly, consider yourself primarily as Swedish. Then you also are Swedish. Basta!
"Did you mean that people should not be allowed to be born in other countries?"
Turn over question:
Have you, Hans, stopped beating your mother yet? Every potential humanbeing is allowed to be born in what ever country they are born in! What kind of a question is that? The question should be: Have everyone the right to put their hand in some others cookie jar? Do they have the "right" to come to Sweden. NO! They should have the possibility, but that is a whole another matter.
"Or how on earth will you prevent you births in outland countries?"
Turn over question: How on earth will you prevent inland births?
"If it's as racists says that more forigners are more criminally propensited then of course the only way to prevent that they do not do crime - is to ensure that they do not exist ..."
Hmm, now it's not what people generally consider as "racists" who proposes such evidence. In this particular case, it is BRÅ. Other statistics may unfortunately have to be looked look for in our neighboring countries, where such crimes as rape assault in Oslo during the last three years all was comitted committed by non- Europeian perpetrators. A horse is a horse even if it was born in pig sty. (The parable of the obvious!). Who has said that other people does not have the right to exist? They can exist all they want in their countries of origin. Legit refugees (about 5% or less)- on the other hand- and immigrants that can provide for themselves should be able to exist as much as they want inside Swedish borders.
"But if you believe that the reasons for crime has social, unemployment, personal reasons, etc to do with it will certainly not stop crime from abroad to exist - but reduction of unemployment, having better schools, etc will.."
With it, you mean that these poor immigrants are more disadvantaged here in terrible Sweden than in their countries of origin? Well then it's no wonder that these poor fellows fall into the path of crime.
Now, you give it a rest!
"Said the Swedish apples never rot? Miscreants there ..."
Read Kalle008:s answer. More educational than it is, will be difficult to do without drawing any pictures for you. My seven-year old son picked directly what was meant.
'And even higher is the the risc for those with poor schooling and poverty .. so why do not racists hate the departement of schooling, the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Finance? "
Where did you get that information from? Source please! The surveys (in fact) made of eg BRÅ indeed shows that socioeconomic factors play little role in the occurrence of particularly serious crime. Now do not whine about sources yourself. The source is BRÅ. Searching the facts you have to do yourself.
Firstly, I am not a racist. I unlike you I'm an immigrant here in Sweden. That does not mean that I can not be racist as many of the Muslim immigrants who come here are, I would not at all think of people as belonging to different races. It is both inhumane and fatalistic. But you drag yourself not to divide people into different groups, I see. Calling someone a racist is basically an extremely racist argument (since the very words meaning become thoroughly devalued by those who throw around the racist epithete as soon as someone does not think like them).
Second: I hate the departement of schooling, the Ministry of Education and Ministry of Finance with all my heart!
Clarification: I dislike them in Sweden, but for quite different reasons than those you are insinuating, but I really HATE those departements and ministries in the countries from which (most) immigrants come, especially those in the MENA countries.
"Kalleo8: Now you have turned on the autopilot. Poor school gang and poverty is more a cause of crime than being born in a country."
Crazy said Bill. Yzarc said Bull.
"Retarded (no good translation), you can be yourself :-)
you assume that immigration raises serious crimes - but there is a prejudice you have and not something you prove. "
Hans! Why do you not you go and "prove" that immigration does not raise (an over-representation of) serious crime? Not as easy and obvious now, huh? If someone presents an argument as it is for opponents to refute this. Now it is a fact that Kalle has a fairly reasoned argument based on statistics from countries including the BRÅ and what some scientists refuted. What do you have? A feeling? A faith? Be Mormon in that case (they're from Mars but're apparently quite timid).
"It sounds retarded ... to build a decision on prejudice."
That is correct, and that is exactly what you base your whole argument on -prejudices.
Do not take a dump in your own nest, don't throw darts in the incubator e t c.
"Sorry .. but your prejudices has no ground for changing policies. There are other cures for your private fear."
No. Hans. It is you who has "forward of" (actually "prejudices" in Swedish, but terribly wrongly spelled)! The sooner you come to realize this, the sooner you can get lost of them. Health center is not a good idea. Believe me. I have both worked and is fixed as a patient at the moment. Have now been in healthcare que for nine months, finally got a MRI today, but I still have not received any treatment for my neurological damage, or my true osteopodic ailments (bones broken). So you could say that I am not completely satisfied with our socialized health care system, but I suppose I am just "foromsfull" (prejudistic). In your case, Hans, I would recommend something a little more acute.
"No only a racist could come up with the the idea to compare mopeds, nuclear waste and wells with people ...."
Can one be racistic against a moped? Against nuclear waste? Against the wells? With the best of intentions, (out of Lithium?) Stop devaluing the word racist!
Read Hasse's post again! If you still do not understand, ask someone to explain for you.
"You do not know what people will one day commit crimes. You know who is at risk (Well, then you, Hans will receave the fortune teller of the year award) - and when it comes to foreigners, they are not at risk precisely because they are foreigners - even Sweden Democrats understand that, one can not claim to be a logical tinking man if you think that you should stop immigration for that part of immigrants that will one day commit crimes. "
Hans, you have managed to not understand a single thing that has been written in the comment field. It is an achievement in itself. Immigrants are overrepresented in crime statistics! If you can prove the opposite, I will crawl to the cross, but all statistics argue against your reasoning. It is not only poorly substantiated, based on pure guesswork and bordering on pure lies, it is straight out infantile.
Since immigrants are overrepresented in crime statistics (particularly in terms of gross violence) so it seems to me, and any logical thinking person that the particular crime incidence would be reduced, by less or selective migration. Today we are giving away about 100 000 UT:s (Green cards) each year. If we slow that down we would possibly be able to take care of the immigrants who find themselves within our borders. Only an imbecile could believe of the "success" of the immigration and intergrations policies held today. It is inhuman, not only for the indogen Swedes but also for the immigrants who come here today with a very little chance to get a successful assimilation into Swedish society, and the dreadful prospect of unemployment, welfare dependency and segregation with the present immigration policy objective. If socio-economic factors were the overall factor for the overrepresentation of immigrant serious crime, in that case, the hundreds of thousands of unemployed indogen Swedes, would be overrepresented in crime statistics-which they are NOT. Right!
For the last time. Don't devaluate the epithet "racist". You do not seem to know what the word means. Google it! (A hint-it was such that the Socialists and the other Left were busied with well into the 70s).
I hope this all make any sense to you. Hans writes in very poor Swedish with bad formation of sentences (?), bad punctuation and misspellings. This could of course be him being dyslectic. I don't know. I have tried to tydy it up as well as I could given the time limit (it's getting late here). The whole original blogpost was an answer to an article i SVD (biggest Swedish daily newspaper).